Three Evidences for Greek "Evolutionary" Philosophical Thought in Genesis

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Thales and Anaximander are da men!!!

THREE EVIDENCES:
1) WATER
2) THE SUN
3) THE APEIRON

It occurs to me how little "Egyptian mythology" had to do with mainly, (Genesis 1, 2, parts of 3, 4, 5 and 6)... they are concepts which only Hellenistic Jews (Greeks) would be familiar with:

The Jews integrated within Greek culture around 300 BC around the time of the oldest known Biblical manuscript. Much modern Biblical literature is actually derived from Greek concepts. Enlightened Greek thought becomes apparent in the opening of Genesis:

One of the first evolutionary theories was proposed by Thales of Miletus (640–546 BC) in the province of Ionia on the coast near Greece followed by Anaximander (550 B.C.) who speculated that life evolved from the water; lower forms of life, in a very primitive precursor to evolutionary theory.

(LIFE EVOLVED FROM WATER)

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." (Genesis 1:20)

Also, the sun... "IF" Genesis were based on ancient Egyptian mythology... a God deity would not 'create' the sun as a material, naturalistic, heavenly "great light"... the sun itself would have been a "god" to the Egyptians. However, the author of Genesis describes the deity (an independent entity) creating a material heavenly source of light and not as a god.

How Ancient Egyptian Religion Affected Farming --> "To the ancient Egyptians, religion was inseparable from everyday existence. They were a nation of farmers, who depended on the fertility of the land and its creatures for their livelihood. In trying to understand how the powers of nature could bring life and destroy it, the Egyptians personified these forces, worshipped them as gods and created myths about them. To retain the favor of the gods, they believed they should farm in accordance with god-given rules, offer sacrifice and continually give thanks." <--

To the ancient Egyptians, "religion" and "science," were the same thing. Inseparable. However, by 600-300 B.C., Greek philosophy makes the first attempt at rational, naturalistic explanations for how things came into being, "Natural Law," began to spread... the opening of Genesis was written in that same vein.

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Besides the fact that the word "Genesis" itself is a Greek word,

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Thales and Anaximander are the men credited for giving rise to the early "Presocratics" precursor of "Evolution" or "Modern Science" (the Old Testament's "mythical account") bear strong similarities to their beliefs:

Evolution and Paleontology in the Ancient World
"...For Anaximander, the world had arisen from an undifferentiated, indeterminate substance, the apeiron. The Earth, which had coalesced out of the apeiron, had been covered in water at one stage, with plants and animals arising from mud. Humans were not present at the earliest stages; they arose from fish. This poem was quite influential on later thinkers, including Aristotle.
Had Anaximander looked at fossils? Did he study comparative fish and human anatomy? Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing what evidence Anaximander used to support his ideas. His theory bears some resemblance to evolutionary theory, but also seems to have been derived from various Greek myths, such as the story of Deucalion and Pyrrha, in which peoples or tribes are born from the Earth or from stones. His concept of the apeiron seems similar to the Tao of Chinese philosophy and religion, and to the "formless and void" Earth of the Hebrew creation account and other creation myths. However, even though Anaximander's ideas drew on the religious and mythical ideas of his time, he was still one of the first to attempt an explanation of the origin and evolution of the cosmos based on natural laws."

[Sadly, what the site fails to mention is that the oldest known biblical manuscripts date no earlier than around 300 B.C., therefore, Anaximander (610-545 B.C.) could not have based any of his concepts on Biblical Hebrew. However it can be deduced, the Hebrew Genesis account was borrowed from mainstream Greek philosophy.]

Religion and Science were all the same, inseparable to the Egyptians, but by the time of 300 BC Greek influence over the Hellenistic Jews, philosophy was beginning to evolve, transform...branching and diversifying separately into "Religion" and "Science" thanks to Thales and Anaximander who lived about three centuries BEFORE the Jewish scribes jotted down any known manuscripts that remain today. As Norman Geisler argues, "no original autographa exist" before that 300 B.C. date. To presume there were any earlier manuscripts, is merely a speculative shot in the dark. Nonetheless, the author of Genesis was blatantly copying concepts invented by Thales and Anaximander, and not the other way around.

Therefore, with that understanding in mind it is quite amazing to realize that the supposed "battle between Science and Religion" --both evolved from the same original source: Greek Philosophy.

That very topic is the discussion, located at this link on the Battle between Science and Religion.

Evolution is described between the verses, and Biblical translators had a heck of a time trying to coherently translate what the author's meaning was. This is EVOLUTION (the precursor), in ancient Greek thought.

Genesis contains a blatant wholesale borrowing of Greek concepts -- the Creationists, who are completely and thoroughly ignorant of the scientific processes involved in Agriculture can't read their own Bible, and understand what the author is describing, when writing, "Before its kind," and "After its kind," -- but ancient farmers would have known this process as Agriculture 101 :

"...The Greeks had, it is true, no term exactly equivalent to "evolution"; but when Thales asserts that all things originated from water..."
Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, iep.utm.edu

The Ancient Greeks did not have a word, "Evolution". But allude to it, in their language.

Genesis 2:5
(Some translations emphasize the absence of cultivated plants i.e., broccoli, cauliflower ------ while other translations emphasize their precursor, the wild ancestor, mustard plant which man used ARTIFICIAL SELECTION to cultivate . . . man created these vegetables, God did not create them. The author of Genesis confirms this:

(1) CULTIVATED "PLANTS OF FIELD" DO NOT EXIST :

English Standard Version
"...no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up .... there was no man to work the ground..."

New American Standard Bible
"...no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted .... there was no man to cultivate the ground."

(2) ONLY WILD PLANTS (THEIR ANCESTORS) DO EXIST

King James Bible
"...And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew ....there was not a man to till the ground."

Jubilee Bible 2000
"...and every plant of the field before it was in the earth and all the grass of the field before it grew... neither was there a man to till the ground."

The Hellenistic Jewish author, is struggling to do his best to describe the process of "artificial selection" -- how wild plants ("before its kind") became "plants of the field" ("after its kind").

Creationists are out of touch with the Farming Culture that is responsible for the opening chapters of Genesis.

"Before its kind."

"After its kind."

Some time ago, I engaged a so-called "Theistic Evolutionist" holding a PhD, who didn't apparently have an original thought of his own and blanket copying other theistic evolutionists, eager to chunk "Genesis" into the wastebasket of "mythological rubbish" WITHOUT investing a smidgen of scholarly study, to actually understand the perspective of the author of Genesis or the Agricultural society in which the author lived. Like a blind obsession -- a machine of sort, "must destroy Genesis"... but that's not understanding.

The argument they made was that ancient people would not have directly observed changes in livestock or crops.

Oh WRONG! yes they would...

The author of Genesis was far more educated about "Artificial Selection" (cultivation of crops and livestock than the clowns graduating from Universities with PhD's in Theology), creationists and theistic evolutionists are out of touch with this book they call the Bible.

"...If a farm pig escapes and joins a group of wild pigs, the newcomer won't take years to start shedding habits acquired over millennia of domestication. According to Pennsylvania Game Commission veterinarian Dr. Walt Cottrell, pigs "take only 30 DAYS to become literally wild." Appearance alone isn't a reliable way to identify a wild or feral hog -- some grow thick fur and look boarlike, others still look like farm pigs -- but males grow razor-sharp tusks from upper and lower canines. Unlike the typically placid pink porkers on the farm, wild pigs can be aggressive and dangerous."
(Source)

At least Billy Graham was humble enough to confess they lack the ability to properly interpret the scriptures sometimes. Others are too arrogant for having the open-minded search for understanding, and too lazy for the study involved with it! Yes, too LAZY...
Good men died to bring "Christians" that Bible that sits in every hotel room, and library shelf and on the pews of church sanctuaries... Bibles are mass manufactured in China and sent to the U.S. by the boatload and Christians rarely crack open the book and read it.

Billy Graham on Evolution: “I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the scriptures. I think that we have MISINTERPRETED the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things they WEREN'T MEANT TO SAY, I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. … whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God.”
- Billy Graham: Personal Thoughts of a Public Man, 1997. p. 72-74

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Who Wrote the Books of Moses?

M.S. wrote: "This is fascinating. It is amazing to me that I was just thinking about some of these things, timeline wise, and here you have done a lot of research and answered questions I hadn't yet asked!"

This truly makes me believe in thought connection (not necessarily psychic ability, but the connection between all humanity)

What a wonderful quote from Billy Graham. I have always liked him. He seems to be a truly deep thinking man, not just spouting Christian propaganda, or mass thinking like that phD you mentioned....

Thank you, I enjoyed reading this, and all your extras.

Thanks... I love the opening chapters to the book of Genesis, because they're so much more than they seem on the surface. That period (600-300 BC) in history was a turning point, the precursor to what would become "modern science" --and sadly, the contribution of Greek thought has been avoided, missed or glossed over for centuries by theologians.

Edward T. Babinski has written numerous articles on the topic "Who wrote the books of Moses?" It's quite obvious what he's written about much of the books, written in the "Third Person" perspective like below:

Israelites and Canaanites. How Different Were They?

"...In short, the Pentateuch reads like a story "about" Moses, written in the third person, and from the point of view of later editors (as demonstrated by many little phrases scattered throughout the Pentateuch) rather than being a story written entirely by Moses. In fact, whomever wrote the Pentateuch, they did not make any great effort to disguise the fact that Moses "wrote" only select portions, not the whole books, just sections mentions within them."
Who wrote the books of Moses?

All of us know Moses didn't write this:

Deuteronomy 34:1 And Moses went up from the plains of Moab unto the mountain of Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, that is over against Jericho. And the LORD shewed him all the land of Gilead, unto Dan,
4: And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.
5: So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6: And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
7: And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

There are still tribes today who pass down "oral records" (this was shown in the movie "Roots" when Alex Haley traveled to the River people who were his ancestors) the record of their ancestors was recited orally). Ancient people would have used this method,

James Earl Jones as Alex Haley discovers his Roots (2/24/1979)

According to Alex Haley, the story was passed down through his family in English that Kunta Kinte was searching a tree to make a drum when he was abducted centuries earlier. The "Record" was also kept alive orally by these "ancient" people. (Video clip use for educational purposes.)

ORAL TRADITIONS?
Who wrote the first 5 books in the Bible?
"...The books themselves claim to have been written by Moses, and there are portions of Genesis that Moses was a compiler of early documents or as some believe wrote down the memorized oral tradition (Gen.1-10)."

Or, "oral traditions" which were passed down and finally added into books "written about Moses" and attributed to Moses... which is not saying a man named Moses never lived, there just aren't any such records, and I tried very hard to find manuscripts dating to the 1000+ BC era. There just aren't any, although the Egyptians created manuscripts (now located in Museums) which date to the 2000 BC era, and they are preserved just fine. So why didn't the Hebrews keep written records.
Ed's articles show how the language was a Canaanite language, so anything earlier than 1000+ BC wouldn't likely have been in "Hebrew" anyway.

Funny. Language "evolves" so quickly, just give any Christian a 400 year old copy of the 1611 King James Bible and ask them to read it!

OLDEST KNOWN HEBREW SCROLLS (600-300 BC), which sets the known manuscripts within the era of the Greek Hellenistic Jews.

Dead Sea Scrolls
"...Biblical text older than the Dead Sea Scrolls has been discovered only in two silver scroll-shaped amulets containing portions of the Priestly Blessing from the Book of Numbers, excavated in Jerusalem at Ketef Hinnom and dated c. 600 BCE. A burnt piece of Leviticus dating from the 6th century CE analyzed in 2015 was found to be the fourth-oldest piece of the Torah known to exist.
Most of the texts are written in Hebrew, with some in Aramaic (in different regional dialects, including Nabataean), and a few in Greek.[6] If discoveries from the Judean desert are included, Latin (from Masada) and Arabic (from Khirbet al-Mird) can be added.[7] Most texts are written on parchment, some on papyrus and one on copper."

CT scan of charred scroll yields oldest Biblical remnant after Dead Sea Scrolls
High-tech deciphering of parchment found in ancient Ein Gedi synagogue, excavated 45 years ago, yields text from Book of Leviticus
"The document, found during the excavation of the synagogue in Ein Gedi 45 years ago, was burned 1,500 years ago while stored inside the ark in the ancient house of worship. Since then, however, the text has been unreadable."

"...The Isaiah Scroll, found relatively intact, is 1000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah. In fact, the scrolls are the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found."

Dead Sea scrolls: world's oldest copy of the Ten Commandments to go on display in Israel
2,000-year-old scroll will remain at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem for two weeks

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That's what is exciting about the article written by the "Secular Jew" on the history of Judea.
The Greeks not only conquered Judea geographically, but were actively working to "Hellenize" the Jewish people in thought as well as other aspects in their culture, and yes "intellectual" Greek thought as well --especially their religious culture, which would include the opening chapters in the "book" of Genesis.
This explains how Thales and Anaximander's naturalist "philosophical" explanation for the origins of life got tied with "God" in that book.
It's clear the author of Genesis does not perceive the sun to be a god (like the Egyptians' mythology) but instead, attributes the material "great light" to be an act of creation by an independent deity that created it.
It was a defining moment in history... the Egyptians had no separation between their gods and science (even their scientists were deified as gods, i.e. Imhotep, the great mathematician). In contrast, the Greeks introduced naturalistic philosophy (precursor to modern science) - the Hellenistic Jews were willing to accept natural phenomena but attempt to explain it, as an "act of a God" -- a compromise with Greek philosophy :

The Jewish Culture under Greek Hellenism

Geographic and Cultural Factors
...the return of the Jews to their native homeland after the Babylonian captivity, circa sixth century B.C.,
... In 332 B.C. the Greeks conquered Judea, and while being conquered was nothing new to the Jews (having faced this before by Assyria, Babylon, and Media-Persia), this conquest presented a unique challenge.
...This victory presented the small nation with a challenge that it had not faced under its previous conquers, the Persians. Under Persian control the Jews were actually encouraged to rebuild their religious and indigenous institutions and traditions. All the Persians wanted was political loyalty, and taxes. Whatever humiliations and problems the occupation presented, religious freedom generally remained secure.
Under the Greeks things were different. Never suffering from a lack of hubris, the Greeks weren’t satisfied with a mere military conquest. Believing in a kind of “manifest destiny” to spread their culture, institutions, ideas, and way of life to “barbarians” (anyone not Greek), they worked very hard, and quite successfully, to do just that. Now, having conquered more “barbarians,” this time in Judea, the Greeks were determined to continue their process of Hellenization, even in the land that God promised the descendants of Abraham many centuries earlier (Genesis 12:7).

Hellenized Jews
"...It was working, too. Though scholars debate how far Hellenization went, it took a certain hold. Within a century after the conquest of Alexander, Greek cities (each known as a polis), which became centers for promulgating Greek ideas and culture, were founded in various parts of Judea.
The problem was exacerbated by corruption in the priesthood, which served as the de facto political leadership in Jerusalem at that time. Two corrupt priests, Jason and then Menelaus, both passionate Hellenizers, helped make Jerusalem look more and more like a Greek polis than the capital of God’s covenant people and the chosen site of the sacred Temple. During their rule the first gymnasium—a Greek center for both intellectual and physical education—was built in Jerusalem. According to 2 Maccabees 4 (the book of Maccabees being a key source for this period), Jason did away with Jewish law and introduced Greek customs into the city: “With great enthusiasm he built a stadium near the Temple hill and led our finest young men to adopt the Greek custom of participating in athletic events.” Internecine fighting between the followers of Jason (who weren’t seen as Hellenistic enough) and those of Menelaus led to the violent intervention of the Seleucid overlord, Antiochus IV Epiphanes, in 169-168 B.C."

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Preserving "Moses" through Oral Tradition

The same is known about Jesus -- Christian theologians and scholars embrace the fact, stories about Jesus circulated far and wide for 30 years after his death before "witness accounts" were written down. So why is it so difficult for people to accept an "oral tradition" regarding Moses? Were the Gospels any less attributable to the authorship of Jesus, because they were derived from oral tradition?

Some want to believe "Moses wrote the first five books," just like some want to believe, "God wrote the Bible," while others want to believe "Jesus read the King James Version of the Bible".

On Oral Tradition and the reliability of the formation of the Pentateuch
By: Jay Antonic
"...The question is, "How did the story get into the book of Genesis?".
Much of human history that we know of was transferred orally*
/EXCERPT

Importance of the Oral Tradition
Before the gospels were composed, Jesus' first followers sustained his memory by sharing stories of his life, death and teachings.
"...It's rather clear from the way that the stories develop in the gospels that the Christians who are writing the gospels a generation after the death of Jesus are doing so from a stock of oral memory, that is, stories that had been passed down to probably by followers. But if we think about the death of Jesus and remember a group of people who would have still been attached to him and to his memory after his death, it must have been a rather stark and traumatic period of time."
/EXCERPT

Oral Traditions
"The Elders would serve as mnemonic pegs to each other. They will be speaking individually uninterrupted in a circle one after another. When each Elder spoke they were conscious that other Elders would serve as ‘peer reviewer’ [and so] they did not delve into subject matter that would be questionable. They did joke with each other and they told stories, some true and some a bit exaggerated but in the end the result was a collective memory. This is the part which is exciting because when each Elder arrived they brought with them a piece of the knowledge puzzle. They had to reach back to the teachings of their parents, grandparents and even great-grandparents. These teachings were shared in the circle and these constituted a reconnaissance of collective memory and knowledge. In the end the Elders left with a knowledge that was built by the collectivity."
Stephen J. Augustine,
Hereditary Chief and Keptin of the Mi’kmaq Grand Council 1
"...Throughout history, Aboriginal societies in North America have relied on the oral transmission of stories, histories, lessons and other knowledge to maintain a historical record and sustain their cultures and identities. According to scholars Renée Hulan and Renate Eigenbrod, oral traditions are “the means by which knowledge is reproduced, preserved and conveyed from generation to generation. Oral traditions form the foundation of Aboriginal societies, connecting speaker and listener in communal experience and uniting past and present in memory."2 Western discourse has come to prioritize the written word as the dominant form of record keeping and until recently, Westerners have generally considered oral societies to be peoples without history. This could not be further from the truth. Oral societies record and document their histories in complex and sophisticated ways, including performative practices such as dancing and drumming. Although most oral societies, Aboriginal or otherwise, have now adopted the written word as a tool for documentation, expression and communication, many still depend on oral traditions and greatly value the oral transmission of knowledge as an intrinsic aspect of their cultures and societies."
/EXCERPT

On the reliability of "Oral Tradition"

Oral Tradition: A Study in Historical Methodology
Jan Vansina, Transaction Publishers, 1972 - Africa

Read More »

Hellenistic Greek Influence on Genesis

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Atheism is not "The" Answer(TM).
I've acquainted overconfident Atheists espousing faith in how Science has all the answers, but when I actually corresponded with Scientists who were responsible for cutting edge research... they weren't so confident in some of the mainstream interpretations of certain data... and often in the business of correcting "mainstream information".

Very sad.

The Ultimate Answer to Everything... Science-Wise: A BIG FAT UNKNOWN.

This ... I am NOT Agnostic about! Both them... and their fanatical "absolute truthism".

Most scientists I've corresponded with -- are pretty grounded AGNOSTICS about their science. The more they know, the less overconfidence they have in any "absolute Truth(TM)". So much for Theism or Atheism.

I do consider myself Christian. That is, there are stories in the Bible written about a man named Jesus who was a wise prophet and philosopher... very inspirational wisdom and it is written, if I believe in his teachings, then I'll inherit "the Kingdom of God". He did not command, "Thou must believe in Satan" nor did he teach, "You must abstain from blood transfusions". He said none of the things which 95% of "Religions"' creeds and dogmas center around.

All of the other things found within the Bible... is up for debate. I don't know what I believe about Jesus in detail because though I've read many debates... my mind is not concluded one way or the other. I guess you can call it FAITH that fills in the unknowns... even in the absence of absolutely certainty. A sort of "Agnosticism" about many things in the Bible.
Meanwhile on Genesis, I've read many arguments for and against it... comparing it with Babylonian and Egyptian mythology...

I believe sincerely the Jews were living under the strong influence of Greek thought around 300 AD and wrote "Genesis" which reveals Greek philosophy in the text... the Greeks who are responsible for developing a precursor to what is now called, "Evolution".

The ancient people had hands-on, eyewitness understanding of "cultivation" or as it is called today, "Artificial Selection". These things are described in the opening chapters of Genesis.

The Influence of Greek Philosophy on the Early Commentaries on Genesis
Frank Egleston Robbins
The American Journal of Theology
Vol. 16, No. 2 (Apr., 1912), pp. 218-240
Published by: University of Chicago Press
(Study Link)

Both the Greeks (in the ancient Evolution school of thought) Modern Science and the Bible assert, "all life began in the water".

The author of Genesis was simply copying what the Greeks had already theorized.

Terms such as, "every creature after its kind," and "every plant before its kind was in the earth" but "no plant of the field, yet grew" ... imply the wild mustard, that is cultivated by man, to become Broccoli, Caulflower, etc.
Genesis even emphasizes this, "There was no plant of the field which grew, because there was no man to till the ground." (translated as cultivation).

Artificial Selection is a man-made form of Evolution. I had a theistic evolutionist argue once, "Impossible! Ancient people would've never seen it happen within their lifetime." Hogwash! If a pig escapes captivity, it quickly reverts back into its original, wild form. So the ancient knew indeed and were experts at man-made "Evolution" or cultivation of crops and livestock.

I read that the ancient Greeks had no word for "Evolution" but are describing ancient cultivation -- agriculture -- "before its kind" and "after its kind" which they made a RELIGION out of. . . they worshiped Agriculture... the heavens, and its influences on crops. Even the Hebrews were guilty of worshiping the Olive Tree, just like cultures surrounding them.

So, that's where the buck stops for me.

No "divine revelation" necessary. Nor is Genesis a piece of Literature deserving being blindly tossed in the trash can. It was written from heavy influence of ancient Greek thought.

After all the studies I have read about ancient cultivation (ARTIFICIAL Selection vs. Natural Selection) I find the opening of Genesis, absolutely amazing... ancient farmers actually understood "Evolution" in terms of Artificial Selection (cultivation of crops/livestock) although, with it being man-made Greek thought behind it... then no, I don't see Genesis as itself "evidence" that ancient writers had an inside scoop from the divine about Science.

The Greeks were, intellectually, well ahead of their time.

From what I have studied about ancient people and agriculture over several years... when I realized that the author of Genesis was elaborating on his worship of Agriculture... now I see, Genesis is pretty awesome curiosity.

But I don't see now, really why or how God would be involved ... when it was getting copied from the Greeks.

History of plant breeding
"...Plant breeding started with sedentary agriculture, particularly the domestication of the first agricultural plants, a practice which is estimated to date back 9,000 to 11,000 years. Initially, early human farmers selected food plants with particular desirable characteristics and used these as a seed source for subsequent generations, resulting in an accumulation of characteristics over time. In time however, experiments began with deliberate hybridization, the science and understanding of which was greatly enhanced by the work of Gregor Mendel. Mendel's work ultimately led to the new science of genetics. Modern plant breeding is applied genetics, but its scientific basis is broader, covering molecular biology, cytology, systematics, physiology, pathology, entomology, chemistry, and statistics (biometrics). It has also developed its own technology. Plant breeding efforts are divided into a number of different historical landmarks."
(Source)

Different translations reveal A LOT about what the ancient Hebrew was attempting to convey:

Genesis 2:5

(Some translations emphasize the absence of man-made cultivated plants i.e., broccoli, cauliflower ------ while other translations emphasize their precursor, the wild ancestor, mustard plant which man used ARTIFICIAL SELECTION to cultivate . . . man created these vegetables, God did not create them. The author of Genesis confirms this:

(1) CULTIVATED PLANTS DO NOT EXIST

English Standard Version
"...no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up .... there was no man to work the ground..."

New American Standard Bible
"...no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted .... there was no man to cultivate the ground."

(2) WILD PLANTS DO EXIST

King James Bible
"...And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew ....there was not a man to till the ground."

Jubilee Bible 2000
"...and every plant of the field before it was in the earth and all the grass of the field before it grew... neither was there a man to till the ground."

Of course some translations go off the rails... because some translators, not being knowledgeable about ancient worship of Agriculture, had little knowledge of what they were actually translating -- the cultivation of crops ... Agriculture Worship... it's my guess these translators are most likely indoctrinated Young Earth Creationists... therefore, they see no difference between "plants of the field" and "wild plants".

But the King James translation, is emphatic in its use of the evolutionary term, every plant "before its kind" DOES exist while Young's point to cultivated plants of the field, DO NOT.

Young's Literal Translation
"...and no shrub of the field is yet in the earth, and no herb of the field yet sprouteth ... and a man there is not to serve the ground,"

Awesome. The ancient Greeks had no word for "Evolution" (I had read) . . . so the author is trying to imply it with difficulty, by saying "After their kind" and "Before its kind" because livestock and crops, may transform into new, yet similar.. evolving kinds.

EVOLUTION... Artificial Selection... Science is Awesome!
"Every plant before it" was in the earth... but "no plant of the field" grew... for there was no man to (cultivate) till the ground.

The ancient Greeks were awesome... ahead of their time.

The Author of Genesis...

Hellenistic Judaism
". . . Hellenistic Judaism was a form of Judaism in the ancient world that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture. Until the fall of the Roman Empire and the Muslim conquests of the Eastern Mediterranean, the main centers of Hellenistic Judaism were Alexandria (Egypt) and Antioch (Northern Syria—now Turkey), the two main Greek urban settlements of the Middle East and North Africa area, both founded at the end of the 4th century BCE in the wake of the conquests of Alexander the Great. Hellenistic Judaism also existed in Jerusalem during the Second Temple Period, where there was conflict between Hellenizers and traditionalists (sometimes called Judaizers). The major literary product of the contact of Second Temple Judaism and Hellenistic culture is the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible from Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic to Koiné Greek, specifically, Jewish Koiné Greek."
(Source)

Hellenistic (Greek) Jewish ideas, are quite intriguing... This Hellenistic Jewish "Law of Nature" and what it is. They were beginning to observe the Natural World, and presumed what the "Natural Order" must be. . . I really am not certain if the author referred to is pro-homosexual or anti-homosexual, but none the less sheds some light on ancient Hellenistic (Greek) Jewish thought.

The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics
By Robert A.J. Gagnon
(Source)

Ancient Greek thought is elaborated in the following excerpt -- the Hellenistic Jews under influence of Greek thought reveal some of the earliest traces of Human "Reason"... observation of the "Natural Order" -- perhaps Paul didn't get his conclusion, correct, but at least it is evidence the ancients were making an attempt at "Reason." Interesting, because there existed a conflict between the Hellenistic Jews and their earlier predecessors.

It is obviously the Greeks who introduced the Hebrew to the concept of "Natural Law"... as in the Hellenistic Jews enlightened by Greek thought... and "Reason".

At least, that is how I interpret these passages.

Past Renewals: Interpretative Authority, Renewed Revelation, and the Quest for Perfection in Jewish Antiquity Front Cover
Hindy Najman
BRILL, 2010 - Religion - 270 pages
(Source)

Now.. if only the YEC could catch up with where the Hellenistic Jews were, scientifically, 2300 years ago because "Evolution" happens.

The ancient Hellenistic Jews who are responsible for the passages in Genesis were copying Greek philosophy when they mixed their religion with bits and pieces of Greek culture, "God said, '...Let the waters bring forth..."

It was the Greeks who first suggested it.

Evolution and Paleontology in the Ancient World

"...Even "primitive" peoples may have extremely detailed knowledge of the living organisms around them, knowledge on which their survival or well-being often depends. When such knowledge is arranged systematically and used to make general statements and predictions about the world, one may speak of a scientific tradition. Such traditions were developed among the ancient Egyptians and Babylonians; the Egyptians, in particular, developed a scientific tradition in medicine, one based on careful observations. It was the Greeks, however, who led the way in developing a general scientific worldview -- one in which natural, non-miraculous explanations for the causes of phenomena were sought. The earliest Greek philosophers lived and worked, not in Greece itself, but in the Greek colonies of Ionia (the Mediterranean coast of Asia Minor -- now Turkey -- and the nearby islands). Because it was favorably located for trade among Greece, Egypt, and the Near East, Ionia was not only wealthy, but well placed for the dispersal of ideas; thus Greek thought drew on the knowledge of the Near East, Egypt, and even India at various times in history. Later, the thinkers of the Roman Republic and Empire carried on the Greek tradition, although relatively less original scientific thought was developed among the Romans.
We can't showcase the entire spectrum and long history of the scientific thought of the ancient world. This exhibit is simply intended to point out some currents within ancient thought that foreshadowed later developments in evolutionary biology.
[...]
For Anaximander, the world had arisen from an undifferentiated, indeterminate substance, the apeiron. The Earth, which had coalesced out of the apeiron, had been covered in water at one stage, with plants and animals arising from mud. Humans were not present at the earliest stages; they arose from fish. This poem was quite influential on later thinkers, including Aristotle.
Had Anaximander looked at fossils? Did he study comparative fish and human anatomy? Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing what evidence Anaximander used to support his ideas. His theory bears some resemblance to evolutionary theory, but also seems to have been derived from various Greek myths, such as the story of Deucalion and Pyrrha, in which peoples or tribes are born from the Earth or from stones. His concept of the apeiron seems similar to the Tao of Chinese philosophy and religion, and to the "formless and void" Earth of the Hebrew creation account and other creation myths. However, even though Anaximander's ideas drew on the religious and mythical ideas of his time, he was still one of the first to attempt an explanation of the origin and evolution of the cosmos based on natural laws.
[...]
In the 6th century B.C.E. Xenophanes of Colophon (died ca. 490 B.C.E.), who was a disciple of Anaximander, developed Anaximander's theories further. He observed fossil fishes and shells, and concluded that the land where they were found had been underwater at some time. Xenophanes taught that the world formed from the condensation of water and "primordial mud;" he was the first person known to have used fossils as evidence for a theory of the history of the Earth.
The Greek historian Herodotus (484-425 B.C.E.) also observed fossil shells in Egypt, and cited them as evidence that Egypt had once been underwater. He also described a valley in Arabia, in the Mokattam mountains, where he saw "the backbones and ribs of such serpents as it is impossible to describe: of the ribs there were a multitude of heaps. . . " He ascribed these bones to winged serpents that had been killed by ibises. We now know that these are the bones of fossil mammals that wash out of the rocks every rainy season. Several other ancient historians briefly mentioned fossils in their writings. Finally, the famous Greek physician Hippocrates of Cos (460-357 B.C.E.) is known to have collected fossils; in fact, modern excavations at Asklepion, the famous medical school of Hippocrates's day, unearthed a fragment of a fossil elephant molar.
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Hellenistic Philosophy (300BCE-200CE)
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I know the various "dates" scholars assign to scripture (and, oh how they vary) ... I also know, and you know, that certain forgeries, attempting to misrepresent certain patriarch were pawned --and even believed . . . purposely retroactively, misdated into the past, such as the book of "Enoch". Show me ancient autographa, before time of Thallus and Anaximander, which discuss the act of ARTIFICIAL SELECTION "no plant of the field yet grew" because "there was no man to till(cultivate) the ground" but "every plant before it, grew wild."

I heard Norman Geisler make the argument once, "No Original Autographa Remain".

The Oldest Medical Books in the World
"...Long ago, when writing was a secret science, the Egyptian scribe was not a simple copyist. He had the combined training of a calligrapher, a philosopher, a scholar and a scientist. Many physicians prided themselves on bearing the title of scribe among their others, and like Hesyreh, had themselves portrayed with the palette and reeds, the sesh, symbol of that learned class. The actual copying was probably performed in the pir-ankh or Houses of Life that were attached to the temples and where the scholars, physicians, philosophers and scientists of the time used to meet. We know of nine principal medical papyri. They are called after their original owners (Edwin Smith, Chester Beatty, Carlsberg), the site of their discovery (Kahoun, Ramesseum), the towns were they are kept (Leyden, London, Berlin) or their editor (Ebers).
The Kahoun Papyrus is the most ancient scroll and was discovered at Fayoum and was called by mistake the Kahoun Papyrus. It dates from 1950 B.C. And has on its back an account from the time of Amenemhat III (1840-1792 B.C.). Not only is this the oldest known papyrus, but the original from which it was copied seems also more antique than the originals of the other papyri."
"...The Ramesseum IV and V papyri were probably written about 1900 B.C., i.e. At about the same epoch as the Kahoun Papyrus."
"...The Ebers Papyrus is the longest of all the known papyri and the most important, considering the physiological and medical knowledge it reveals. It is complete in 108 pages and bears the date of the 9th year of the reign of Amenophis I (1550 B.C.)."
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A certain Atheist, wrote: "....is nothing more than a ludicrous, bald-faced attempt to rewrite the Bible!"

WHO WOULD DO SUCH A THING?

"...All the pieces are in their proper, chronological order, and they form one, seamless, complete account. The attempt to fracture this account by abruptly jumping 250 years into the future, by dragging in Alexander the Great out of the blue, all of this being based on the odd usage of "they" in verse 12, is nothing more than a ludicrous, bald-faced attempt to rewrite the Bible! The clear intent of such nonsense is to nullify, at all costs, the obvious failure of the prophecy, a prophecy that plainly features Nebuchadrezzar throughout. If that's what it takes to make the Bible "inerrant," then that battle is already lost."
Apologists tell us, on the basis of their analysis of the ancient Hebrew, that we must break the obvious unity of this account, jump hundreds of years into the future, and drag in a person of their choosing!"
- Ezekiel's Prophecy of Tyre: a failed prophecy

Another Atheist writes:
"...Finally, when discussing the autographs of the OT, I like to ask, what is the autograph of the Psalms which were written over a 1000 years? How about Jeremiah? The original was burned by the king. Then Jeremiah wrote or rather dictated an expanded copy, but that was over twenty years before the last events of the book were recorded. Even then the Hebrew tradition grew after Jeremiah died as evidenced when it is compared to the LXX. So, what was the autograph of Jeremiah? The argument for the inerrancy of the autograph has a number of problems. Making the concept a statement of faith as some seem to argue is a corruption of orthodox Christianity."

Biblical text, the oldest find since the Dead Sea Scrolls, revealed in digital image of a charred scroll
"...JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Israeli archaeologists said on Monday they had discerned biblical writing on a charred 1,500-year-old parchment with the help of digital imaging and described the text as the oldest found since the Dead Sea Scrolls.
U.S. and Israeli researchers made the discovery using advanced medical and digital technology to examine the object, first unearthed 45 years ago when then-standard forensics could not decipher any script on the scroll."
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CT scan of charred scroll yields oldest Biblical remnant after Dead Sea Scrolls
High-tech deciphering of parchment found in ancient Ein Gedi synagogue, excavated 45 years ago, yields text from Book of Leviticus
"The document, found during the excavation of the synagogue in Ein Gedi 45 years ago, was burned 1,500 years ago while stored inside the ark in the ancient house of worship. Since then, however, the text has been unreadable."
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Dead Sea Scrolls
"...Biblical text older than the Dead Sea Scrolls has been discovered only in two silver scroll-shaped amulets containing portions of the Priestly Blessing from the Book of Numbers, excavated in Jerusalem at Ketef Hinnom and dated c. 600 BCE. A burnt piece of Leviticus dating from the 6th century CE analyzed in 2015 was found to be the fourth-oldest piece of the Torah known to exist.[5]
Most of the texts are written in Hebrew, with some in Aramaic (in different regional dialects, including Nabataean), and a few in Greek.[6] If discoveries from the Judean desert are included, Latin (from Masada) and Arabic (from Khirbet al-Mird) can be added.[7] Most texts are written on parchment, some on papyrus and one on copper.[8]"
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"...The Isaiah Scroll, found relatively intact, is 1000 years older than any previously known copy of Isaiah. In fact, the scrolls are the oldest group of Old Testament manuscripts ever found."
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Dead Sea scrolls: world's oldest copy of the Ten Commandments to go on display in Israel
2,000-year-old scroll will remain at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem for two weeks
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The Dead Sea Scrolls in Context: Integrating the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Study of Ancient Texts, Languages, and Cultures
Armin Lange, Emanuel Tov, Matthias Weigold
BRILL, 2011 - Dead Sea scrolls - 980 pages
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"...The oldest Egyptian leather manuscript has been found in the shelves of the Egyptian museum in Cairo, where it was stored and forgotten for more than 70 years.
Dating from the late Old Kingdom to the early Middle Kingdom (2300-2000 B.C.), the roll measures about 2.5 meters(8.2 feet) and is filled with texts and colorful drawings of the finest quality.
“Taking into account that it was written on both sides, we have more than 5 meters (16.4 feet) of texts and drawings, making this the longest leather roll from ancient Egypt,” Wael Sherbiny, the Belgium-based independent scholar who made the finding, told Discovery News."
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If Medical Scrolls and Literature from Egypt still survive, couldn't the Almighty God have preserved his written word as good or better than the Egyptians?

The scrolls pretty much begin disappearing from history, the further one moves back into time toward 300-600 BC. Which tells me the approximate time such books were written... by Jews in Hellenistic Greece.

The Almighty God of the Universe... and the best they can do is produce an inconclusive string of text on a shard of pottery dating 1000 BC that may or may not, be Hebrew.
If these people actually did what some claim:

"...the ancient Israelites would be recording their history in real time instead of several hundred years later..."

There would be much older manuscripts, all over the place with radiocarbon dating, verifying the authenticity. The evidence points to their "history" being written several 100 years later.

3,000-Year-Old Inscription May Be ‘Oldest Form Of Written Hebrew’ "...“The letters of the inscription match those of contemporary inscriptions, many of which form words that clearly are part of the Hebrew language. Hebrew speakers were controlling Jerusalem in the 10th century, which biblical chronology points to as the time of David and Solomon," ancient Near Eastern history and biblical studies expert Douglas Petrovich told Fox News.
If Petrovich’s claim is accurate, the inscription could prove the veracity of the Old Testament. That is, if the Hebrew language dates back to the 10th century B.C., the ancient Israelites would be recording their history in real time instead of several hundred years later.
But other archaeologists do not support Petrovich’s theory. Earlier this month, Hebrew University of Jerusalem's Eilat Mazar, who found the relic, said that the text was written in the Canaanite language, which translates to M, Q, P, H, N, possibly L, and N. The combination of letters doesn’t correspond to any words in west-Semitic languages, but it may describe the contents of the jug or its owner, NBC News reports.
“Because the inscription is not in Hebrew, it is likely to have been written by one of the non-Israeli residents of Jerusalem, perhaps Jebusites, who were part of the city population in the time of Kings David and Solomon,” Mazar describes in a paper for the Israel Exploration Journal."
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Ceramic shard may bear oldest Hebrew inscription
Bernat Armangue / AP
"...A 6-by-6-inch pottery shard unearthed at the archaeological dig site of Hirbet Qeiyafa (the Elah Fortress) in Israel, shown here, contains five lines of faded characters that may bear the oldest Hebrew inscription ever found. The 3,000-year-old text dates to the time of the Hebrew Bible's King David and is thought to be written in proto-Canaanite, a precursor to the Hebrew alphabet. While other people used proto-Canaanite characters as well, the inscription contains a three-letter verb meaning "to do" that existed only in Hebrew, according to Yossi Garfinkel, a Hebrew University archaeologist in charge of the dig. "That leads us to believe that this is Hebrew, and that this is the oldest Hebrew inscription that has been found," he told the Associated Press. Other scholars, however, have urged caution until more is known about the inscription and its context."
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"Before its kind" . . . "After its kind". Such a strange way to word something when speaking of cultivated "plants of the field" vs. "every plant before it," but that is because :

History of Evolution
" ... The Greeks had, it is true, no term exactly equivalent to "evolution"; but when Thales asserts that all things originated from water; when Anaximenes calls air the principle of all things, regarding the subsequent process as a thinning or thickening, they must have considered individual beings and the phenomenal world as, a result of evolution, even if they did not carry the process out in detail. Anaximander is often regarded as a precursor of the modem theory of development."
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The Greeks: Triumph of Rational Thought and Mathematics
"... The long era of Greek Philosophy (literally, “love of wisdom”) began in the early seventh century B.C. (Table 3.1). The concept of “science” as an organized view of the world (expressed by the Greek concept, “Cosmos”) arose alongside mythology as an alternate way of viewing and interpreting nature. The two parallel ideals developed and prospered together for several centuries, neither entirely supplanting the other.
[...]
"...On the other hand, science – as we define it today -- was born and given shape and form during the age of the Greek philosophers. Modern students should be cautioned not underestimate their profound contributions to scientific understanding.
Two “schools of thought” arose during the Grecian philosophical era. These competing groups were: the Ionians -- a group of great thinkers, most of whom lived on islands or coastal city states scattered along the east coast of the Aegean Sea, an area of Asia Minor now administered by Turkey (Fig. X) – and the Mainland Greeks who lived in large city states like Athens. The Ionians produced the first great Greek philosopher, Thales (pron: Th-all-es) of Miletus.
Miletus stood in the middle of a swampy deltaic flood plain at the mouth of the Meander river (from which the term meander is derived). In Thales’ time it was a center of maritime trade, sporting no fewer than four separate harbors. It was here around 640 B.C. that the mutiny against superstition and fuzzy thinking took root with the birth of Thales, commonly accorded the honor of being the world’s first scientist. Thales claimed that human reason could be applied to questions regarding the nature and origins of natural phenomena; the gods of Olympus were of no help in that endeavor. In his time his Greek contemporaries deemed him one of the Seven Sages, the seven wisest men on earth.
Thales also spent considerable time in Egypt. He stunned the Egyptians with his ability to measure the height of the pyramids by applying the law of similar triangles, and was celebrated for his ability to measure the shoreline distance of a ship in the Mediterranean Sea. His mathematical prowess was such that he laid much of the groundwork for the great mathematician Euclid, who lived centuries later.
He is credited with the first system of logical reasoning, and he coined the word geometry, Greek for “earth measurement”, the terminology he learned from the Egyptians.
Perhaps Thales’ greatest contributions to modern science – and astronomy – are the notions that all natural phenomena can be understood via reason and observation, and the idea that nature follows regular laws. He firmly rejected the intercession of the gods in creating natural materials or events. These concepts are the underpinnings of what is now popularly termed the “scientific method”.
In an amazing leap of intuition, he also explored the ultimate nature of matter and space. He speculated that despite apparent differences, all matter must be composed of a single, fundamental material (anticipating the concept of atoms). Thales is commonly derided for assuming that this fundamental material essence was, in fact, water, but living in a watery world no doubt lead him to that “logical” conclusion. His notion that the earth is a flat disc floating on water, however, does illustrate the limitations of some of his cosmological constructs.

Anaximander, Student of Thales
Like Thales, Anaximander was a resident of Miletus, although very little is known about his life. Most of what we know about him was handed down from Aristotle and his student Theophrastus. He was probably a student, or at least an important contemporary of Thales, founded a colony on the Black Sea (Apollonia), and introduced the gnomon-style sundial to Greece. He was a seasoned traveler and besides astronomy, also contributed to the study of geography and biology. For instance, Anaximander is credited with producing the first major world map (550 B.C.), and speculated that life evolved from lower forms of life, in a very primitive precursor to evolutionary theory. Humans, for example, evolved from fish, which constituted the first animals. Remember, like Thales, Anaximander lived in a world dominated by water.
Perhaps his most profound contribution to astronomy is the “Boundless” principle, known as apeiron in Greek. The apeiron was a highly abstract concept but contained the idea of “that which has no boundaries”, a system without limits. It was philosophically at variance with Pythagorean virtues of a harmonious, symmetrical, and finite world, reassuringly accessible and knowable through mathematics. In fact the Pythagoreans listed the apeiron concept as a “negative thing”, and Aristotle is known to have been troubled by its lack of limits. The “Boundless” seems to embrace the infinite, and somewhat parallels our current overall concepts of the nature of the universe.
Anaximander was not content to simply propose an abstract concept like apeiron without presenting logical arguments in its defense. In that respect he seems to be the first Greek to make use of true philosophical argument, an important step toward the systematic, rational analysis of nature embodied in modern science.
Anaximander was not an observational astronomer like the Babylonians and Egyptians, but a speculative astronomer. He relied on pure reason and logical arguments to prove his points, a situation in keeping with the teachings of Thales. For example, Anaximander speculated that (1) celestial bodies make full circles and may pass beneath the earth, (2) the earth is a free-floating body in space, and (3) celestial bodies may lie behind one another (not “painted” on a two-dimensional surface).
As for the “Boundless” concept, he offered logical arguments for each speculation, and for each he should be awarded a gold star for accuracy. Interestingly, his argument for a suspected earth includes the notion of the centrality of the earth compared to the rest of the universe. Since all things should seek that central point, that which occupies that space must hang suspended. Interesting philosophical argument, even though the science lacks some rigor. Gravity and the non-centrality of the earth were still distant ideas in his day."
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